Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Between Two Ledgers. I'm James Rose and today's guest is Taryn Holman from Seamless smsf.
She's one of the most memorable people I've ever met. And I would guess you've probably never met anyone as positive and enthusiastic about everything as Taryn. When I first met her, I met also a bunch of her teammates and the way they spoke about their business or the business they worked in was just unlike any I'd ever heard before. It was just such a standout to me that I became that annoying guy asking a thousand questions about how they operated and what their office was like and this kind of thing. And today you're gonna be a fly on the wall as I ask those thousand questions again to Taryn.
She's also the host of one of my favorite networking events. It's called Networking. So first, it's just a cool name. I love a good pun. But it's just a standout event because it's so different to all the other events I go to. And you'll hear more about that in this chat. Taryn and I talk about building a positive attitude to everything, creating an incredible company culture and running events that people remember and more topics. And now I bring you Taryn Holman.
Taryn Holman, welcome to the show.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: I feel like this is going to be a clash of the attitudes is maybe the right word. You're like the most energetic and positive person I know and I am on lack of sleep and just dropped my two girls at daycare who screamed the entire way there. So I'm trying really hard to be positive.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Can you be your authentic, amazing self? That's what I love, Jen.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: I'm trying. But I do have a question about just. I've literally never met anyone as positive and energetic as you. Actually, that's a lie. I know what two other people like that their sisters image like. So, like you have to introduce you one day. But I just want to know, how do you know? Do you get home from a day of work and just fall over?
Nothing left?
[00:01:54] Speaker B: No, I think it's taking consistent daily action of really healthy habits over a long period of time and doing the shit that you love, boom, you're aligned. And when we unlock extra energy, when we're aligned doing the stuff we love.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: I think we can end the podcast there. And the one takeaway, well, that's not what we came to talk about, but I think it is. It is very important. I don't know, like, I, I want to hear more about the, the daily action. What is, is that something that's conscious for you and that you're taking? Like there are things you are doing every day to try and be more positive or whatever? Like.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I just think it's carving out time for yourself in the morning and having an epic morning routine.
So we would need to do a whole podcast on my morning routine. But there's definitely movement in there. Infrared saunas, nice gratitude journal, which would make you sick. Everything.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: No, I actually am okay with that kind of stuff and I've tried to do it in the past. Yeah.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: I just think if you focus on what we've got and we're grateful for it, we see more good in the world.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Okay, very good.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And things like that.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. I, I did. I now I, that I hear you say that. Of course you're a morning routine kind of person. I think I used to be a morning routine kind of person and now I have a one and a three year old, as I've already mentioned, and they are my entire morning routine.
But yeah, look, I, I'm actually installing a sauna very soon. I've wanted that for a very long time. Hopefully that can help.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know what? It's seasonal. It's a season. It won't last forever. And you'll get back into your morning routine and you'll feel a bit more positive. No doubt.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Indeed.
So switching gears to work type stuff, you have had, is it nine years? I've seen what's in myself. How long you been there? 10.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: A decade of being with the Seamless crew.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Wow, that's a long time. It's pretty rare that someone spends that long at one company these days. So there's obviously something really cool going on there. So let's just start. Tell me what you guys do, obviously. And to set the stage for listeners and then what's it like working there?
[00:04:08] Speaker B: So we're an outsourcing solution for accountants and financial planners and we help them create capacity by them outsourcing their super funds to us. So they just outsource the stress. We take care of all of that for them so they can focus on all the stuff they want to do. Whether that's spend more time with their kids, implement a better morning routine like we were just or slaying business. That's what we help people achieve. Which is why I absolutely love it because my. Why is helping people so seamless? Why do I love working there? It's epic.
It's an amazing business. And that's not by accident, because Mike McHenry has really designed the culture of Seamless. It hasn't happened by default. And if I could tell people one thing about running a successful business, it's that.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: And that is very obvious from the outside. And that's basically why I wanted to talk about this as our first sort of like, main topic. I remember seeing a video, I think it was, of Seamless at swepstream Conference up in Port Douglas.
And just like. And meeting you and Mike and half the people from the team, not half, but a lot of people from the team and just being like, something's different here, I don't know what it is. And so that's what I want to know. What do you think? Like you said, it's intentional. What's been done, what makes it so epic?
[00:05:36] Speaker B: There's a few things.
First of all, we have a really interesting and unique recruitment process.
So people have to pass the two hour coffee or beer test before they even get an interview. What does that mean? It means that you sit down with four or five of our team members and you just have a chat for a good 15 minutes about yourself, about what you love. And if they all unanimously go, that person's a ripper, I could hang out with them and have a drink. Then they get through to the interview process.
So really we're hiring on will, not skill initially. That's gotta. You have to pass that first.
Typically, most of the people that work for us also have played team sport. It's one of our requirements.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: That's so funny. Like, the reason it's funny is because I just hate team sport.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Probably would have worked together.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Probably not.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Why is that good?
Because culture, by definition, is that you need to bring people around the same ideas, customs and social caviar. And so if you've got people that are of a similar mindset, that come together, that's already half the battle. And if you've played team sport at a really high level, typically you know what it means to be a team player.
So that's another thing that we have.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: And to put personality aside and have to play with dickheads is the this is why I don't like it policy.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: Because we go back to that recruitment. We need everyone to really like them before they even get an interview based on their skill set.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Yeah. But it also then means that this is maybe my jaded self, but it's like, that's how I view team sport is like being forced to, like work towards a goal with like a lot of people who could probably be dickheads and making it work anyway. And I'm like, that's why I don't like it. Because I'm like, why would I subject myself to working with dickheads?
[00:07:32] Speaker B: I get it. I love that.
The other thing that we do is principal of the firms. And Mike, who you mentioned before, he sits down with absolutely everyone and gives you a full induction. So he still does that no matter how large we get. He talks about the why.
Why do we have certain like rules that cannot be broken? Like our non negotiables in the office?
What are we striving to do? What do we want to be?
We want to be outstanding. That's our word here at Seamless and that's our benchmark. And that we hold each other accountable to that word.
And he speaks about that. Why do we want to be outstanding?
Because we want people to speak so highly of us when we're not in the room. I think that's a good measure. How are people talking about you and your business when you're not around?
So that's another thing that we do to really create that incredible culture here.
And I actually was at a conference and I think her name was Amy Silverstein or something and she was talking about Dr. Paul Zak, who is a neuroscientist and he did a study, Harvard. It went for a decade and it really proved that businesses that have high trust are 400% more profitable than businesses that have low trust.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think everyone in the accounting space and bookkeeping does want that. And I think it is an absolute core tenant of this industry, especially because so many rely on referrals and you're not going to get those without trust. So. Yeah, like I can see that absolutely being the case. There are some businesses that do okay without trust, but I think they're the exception.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: And even within the organization. Right. We need to be able to have high trust with our teammates. So Mike had all these games put into our organisation.
So every single year he gets us to draw, not write. We have to draw pictures. And I'm a terrible lines like a three year old's done it. But we have to actually say, what do we want to be known for? How many people are we going to have here? What do we want our offices to look like? What do we want them to have in the office?
What do we see Branching out. And he looks at all of the pictures from everyone and then he gets his friend who's a cartoonist to do this big bhag board that goes on the wall for everyone to see.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Bhag being big, hairy, audacious goal for people. Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: And it goes on our wall in every single office that we have as to what are our goals, what do we want to accomplish, what are the things and these gowns, Getting back to that and having those visuals everywhere.
One of the things that people wrote on their bhag years and years ago were, we want fun games in the office. And he's okay. Then he looked into this research and was like, games mean that maybe me and you sit in the office together and we naturally click and hang out, but we don't speak to Tom because he's like a bit strange over there.
I love you, Tom. That was the joke.
But what a game does is if we're scheduled on to play one another in a game of pool at lunchtime, then I actually speak to Tom, who I normally wouldn't hang out with.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Oh, they're scheduled games.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: They're like in our office and. And we have championships and then we announce it at our monthly management meeting.
But it means that we actually get to know one another.
The other thing that we do, there are no mobile phones allowed in the offices.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: Damn.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: People say, oh, we would have a mutiny if we did that in our firm. But what does that mean? Means that no one's distracted. When you're going into a boardroom, people aren't looking at their phones and then paying attention.
You've got that extra five minutes to really have a chat with one another and you're present and you're engaged.
So I think they're the main things that I see us doing compared to other firms that create that really strong culture of loving one another, trusting one another, having that same goal, having that same mindset.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Love it. A couple of things. I really like the phone thing because for one reason that's not immediately obvious is the mental space it gives you. Like, I tend to feel every available second, right? And if I'm gonna get into toilets as a topic on this night, if I have a What a freaking 15 step journey to the toilet, Pick up my phone, take it with me and look at it on the way. And it's this terrible habit to fill every available moment with more stuff and more information.
Like, I go for a walk and I listen to a podcast. But I've been trying to do less of that kind of stuff because sometimes you get those extra couple of minutes or whatever like you, like you mentioned, in that case, they're talking to each other but sometimes it's also you're letting your brain run and coming up with other ideas and whatever. And from a business point of view, that means you've got all those spare seconds during the day where people are going to be thinking about the thing they were just doing a second ago, which is the business, rather than, you know, what Sally ate for breakfast.
And people say there would be a mutiny. And I totally get that. But I'm guessing the no phone in the office thing is raised very early on in the hiring process as a. This is how we do things. So you're already filtering for someone who's. If someone is. No, they're not going to work there. So setting this up from the beginning is going to be very different than going to an existing office and being like, no phones.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: How.
Yeah, like, I had a client that said we're politically incorrect. We love, like, the rudest jokes, heaps of banter, lots of sledging, and we're really clear when we're hiring. That's who we are. We're not sledging you. We don't like you. You probably shouldn't work here. That's their vibe.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Are you okay with that being. Sorry, continue.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: No, I was just going to say you need to be authentic and very clear on who you are as an organization, what you stand for. And then their clients are actually like that, too.
They don't shy away from it. They lean into it. Now, do I agree with that? Probably not. You might love it, but it filters out who should and shouldn't work with them in their office and clientele as well.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: That was my next question was going to be, does it. Does that sort of attitude. Is it allowed to go external? Yeah. Is it? The sledging is what they like.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: And they're an accounting firm, so that really differentiates them between other accountants.
That is a client of mine who said, this is who we are.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. This is something I think about a lot, too, because we're having an internal debate right now, and I guess we may as well talk about this and I'll get your opinion because I don't know. It's interesting. I as you. I don't know. Have you seen our character Ivan, who's the big biker? He's got a bat, and it's like he chases clients for information. He's a scary man. And Tom had the idea to have inflatable baseball bats as merch with content snare written on him, and it has basically been vetoed.
Like my. Like with the connotations to violence And I just think it would be hilarious to see people running around a conference whacking each other with these inflatable baseball bats and. But I didn't even think of anything outside of that. That was my basic little. Oh my God, that'd be so funny and amazing. And like, how is this not the best merch idea in the history of merch? And like a woman was like, no, this is a terrible idea. And I was like, please expand on this because I don't understand.
And it was outlined to me and then I like ran it by my wife and even my business partner was really worried about it. And I don't know like how that's authentic to me, but we take things.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: A little too far and that we have gone politically correct mad. And you are the kind of nicest, caring person underneath your negative skepticism, like there's no ill reward there and it's just a bit of fun.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: However.
Yeah.
So something my wife pointed out is that imagine with there's a bloke who's a bit of a, at that conference and he goes and whacks a couple of women with it. I don't know. I think that's unlikely.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: However, we work in the best industry. I can't imagine any of the accountants, I can barely imagine the accountants actually whacking one another. I think it would just be funny.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think so too. But. But the point is if we give the bats out, then it's no longer in our control and someone else could ruin our brain. I was like, damn, I never.
I like, I feel like I'm a two bit thinker sometimes. I'm like, hehe funny do that. And maybe I, maybe it would be better if no one got in the way and I just did that stupid crap. But I don't know.
So I want to actually circle back to the very beginning, which is probably a no no for podcasting. But I want to dig into a couple of things. The first was the two hour beer thing or whatever. Hanging out with someone for two hours, I just think that is so unreal because culture fit over skills is incredible. Like super, super important.
Obviously in accounting you're probably going to be a bit more limited that you need someone with a fricking accounting degree. Right. Or whatever. But still they need to pass that culture test. I think that is.
So I really just wanted to nail in on that because we went over that like quickly and I just wanted to come back and be like, that is so worth thinking about. And just literally, where do you Actually do that, like that two hour thing. Okay. So just like in my room and.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: We'Ve got like areas, big lounges, kitchen areas, and we make them a coffee and sit down in those particular areas. And to have a chat now, you need to be pretty confident to go in to view and just be yourself and chat to four people that are firing questions at you to pass this little culture test before you even get the interview. It's very unusual.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you tell them that's what it is. It's like literally just a chat with four people.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Come in, we're going to have an interview.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: Oh, so you say it's an interview.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Sister Harry, this is the start of the interview. We just want to get to know you.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: And it's two hours. Do you tell them it's two hours?
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Not two hours. It goes for about 15, 20 minutes.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: Oh, is that all?
[00:18:02] Speaker B: But why we call it you need to pass the two hour or coffee or beer test is because you need to leave that meeting going. I could hang out with them for two hours and love it.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Ah, okay.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: And so Mike says you're spending eight hours a day with people, sometimes 10, sometimes 11, when we're going to conferences, not longer. He'd rather stab himself in the eye with a fork than hang out with someone for that amount of time and not actually get along with them and like them.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: So just this is your life. People, if you sit there and you're like, on paper they are the best person, but they actually drive you crazy and annoy you.
What are you like, what are you doing?
[00:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it's good to know this in a way for. Just for myself. Because I always wonder if, like, by hiring people that I like, I'm kneecapping myself in a way. And that's because. Because generally I don't like salespeople. And. And sorry, Tom, but this is a case in point. He's like, you two are. I actually. I get on with. Yeah, but I'm like, the thing is, it's. I actually just answering my own question right here because both of you are some of the most effective salespeople I've met and I get on with you. Whereas, like, I used to be like, do I have to hire someone I don't like who's going to be like this ruthless sell shit person? I guess the answer is no, isn't it?
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's correct.
This is the other thing I said at the very start. When you're aligned and you're loving what you're doing, you unlock More energy.
So if you're loving what you're doing and you're loving the people that you're doing it with, the vibes are high. And that actually does result in better profit, better relationships.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: No doubt. Yeah.
This is great. I love it. The one other thing the circle back topic was non negotiables. Are you, are they shareable or is that just some internal thing?
[00:19:58] Speaker B: The non negotiables for our.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: Yeah, you have. Yeah. Like when you're hiring someone. Is that something you've posted? I'm not saying I'm not going to force you to share it. I'm just like actually curious what they are. Is it like that?
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Mike does a whole speak, did a big talk on our non negotiable.
If you go to our website www.seamless-smsf.com you can do the. Grab our goodies and we can just go in. Give us your email.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Download all.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So far has been incredibly helpful for me.
Very helpful for people listening as well.
Before I go on to the next topic, I just wanted to throw a very, an interesting curveball. Can you tell me about the Brave Rose series?
[00:20:42] Speaker B: Pure Little heart.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: So I did a little bit of research on you before this and I found that you've done a book series of published book.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: When my kids are about your age I wrote some books and it was a fun exercise.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: It was actually born out of a bit of a sad story. So my auntie at the age of 58 got diagnosed with a brain tumor.
So it was GBM. It's one of the most aggressive brain tumours you can ever get. And she was a really big part of my life and my kids lives and they actually watched her die very quickly. And anyone that's actually been touched by cancer knows how distressing it can be for the whole entire family.
And I was trying to explain it to the kids and at the time there just didn't seem to be any books out there that really expressed it in a way that was helpful.
So doing what I always do, I did lots of research, connected with psychologists and we actually wrote a series called Brave Rose and it was a cute little book series and my mum did all the illustrations and we got it published and we sold a whole heap of them and they're still there to buy. So that was where that idea came from and how it was born.
And it was a fun, fun project.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Wow, that'd be incredible. And that is not where I thought the story was gonna go. That's Far out. Good on you for. I'm glad it's doing well too. Like I was. I saw the Amazon listings and stuff yesterday when I was reading around. It's just. Yeah, super interesting.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: There you go. I've got a whole other Persona that no one knows about.
He's my passion project.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: It sounds like you've done a lot of things. Like I. Looking at your like history, you've had your own business and that kind of stuff as well. So, yeah, I imagine there's a lot of pieces of tar going to cover today.
The next thing. And I guess like the other thing I've always. The culture of seamless was the first thing that always impressed me about you and like the people around you. The second thing is your networking and events organization. I think this obviously naturally fits into something someone like you where with a positive energy and want to be surrounded by awesome people. And the thing I thought was just amazing was networking, net walking, W A L K for people that are listening. What a cool idea for an event instead of the classic like evening cocktails, whatever. Like every event I've been to has been like pretty much the same. And then I go to networking and it's an early morning thing. We're all in activewear and we're going for a walk. And you force people to change who they're Talking to every 10 minutes or whatever it is, which I've borrowed, by the way. I've done hikes. I've gone on like long hikes with entrepreneurs and forced them to change every sort of 20 to 30 minutes, which was awesome. Everyone was like.
And then they were like, dude, that was so good. So I stole that idea from you and did not credit you. No, I did actually, but love it. Yeah. So tell me about your approach to network building. If and events and I guess trying to do things a little bit different.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: We wanna. We want people to walk away from our.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: Okay, I see what you did there.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Walking away from our events, going, wow, that was outstanding. I wanna be a part of that.
And so with that in mind for every single event that we create, like, how can we make it different? So instead of just going to a winery, we've taken people in helicopters, we pick them up, we land, there's champagne served to us, we get a special wine to have a lunch, then get the helicopter back to the city. It's just, how can you take an event and give someone an experience that maybe they've never had or that they wouldn't be able to access themselves or that just. And it's all about experiences and time with people opposed to sending gifts and things.
What's. How can we just change these regular events and make them wow. Make them outstanding. So we do these things called the Long Table Escapes. So instead of just organizing a lunch with clients, we have started an initiative this year where we fly the clients in from where they are. There's three people that are invited from that firm. We go further.
A beautiful private property in Broadbeach Waters that overlooks the river. We have a private chef cook a three course meal for them. We have beautiful wines. We spend the whole entire afternoon with them. But the detail that goes into those events is like from the second that they get on the plane, how can we make it good? Seat number one, if it's available when they get picked up, who's going to do that? An amazing chauffeur in a nice car.
There's team members there to carry their bags to their room. They, they have Sheraton robes that have their names engraved in them with seamless chateau under it.
At every single touch point of the event has to be outstanding.
And anything that we design is like that. Even if it's basic.
Like networking is just how can we make it amazing for people? You want to do it in good locations. Brisbane and Gold coast. Great weather all the time. And it's by the ocean or the beautiful story bridge where we walk. When I catch up with you and walking in your activewear, it just gets rid of all the professional bullshit. It's like you're already in your activewear. No one has makeup on. All the barriers are down. We're walking and sweating.
And when you're walking and sweating, you're activating both sides of your brain and you're connecting and you're having real authentic chats.
And the business that has come out of networking for people is insane. And the connections that have come out of it are awesome. And I think when you actually really come at an event and it's all about giving, what can I give? How can I help people? How can I have them feel better when I leave them?
How can I improve their lives in some way? And you have zero expectation of anything in return. The law of reciprocity is very real.
People just got tattooing in tenfold just because you genuinely care. It's not a, it's not a gimmick, it's not a trick, it's not manipulation. It's just when you actually give instead of asking to get first all of the time, you do see awesome results.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And I don't know, like, everything you said about networking, for example, is in my experience of it. I've met awesome people there and like you said, the guy. It's great for me because I hate quote unquote, professionalism fit in well with me. I think you've highlighted a couple of very extreme examples there. Right. Free. And when I say free, it's. I like that there's. Sorry.
My point is that it. It's the kind of thing that's going to differentiate you even though there was no like extreme cost involved except effort and time to make that happen. So I still think it's a really cool idea because not many people are going to do it, if that makes sense. Hopefully I'm getting that across. It's like you can have an event that doesn't cost anything, but no one's going to do it. So you're still able to differentiate by doing it. Not everyone's going to run an event like networking. The other end of the scale that you mentioned, that event, like, that's a lot of expense and you can only really do that with clients who are quite unquote, worth it. That's not going to be an option for a lot of businesses. There's no way. We don't have a single client that like our top client. We're as a software product. Right. They're not crazy expensive. If you took out literally our number one client and we did that kind of event, we would break even after three years of their. Just of. Yeah. So I'm keen to hear like the middle ground.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Seamless was a startup when I.
So we weren't doing that sort of stuff. But it's paying enough attention to clients to actually make them feel valued, seen and appreciated and to develop a friendship and a relationship with them. Because people will break up with a service provider but they won't break up with a friend.
It's very different.
So I'll give you an example. A cheap option. I actually was chatting to someone at a conference. They spoke to me about how they don't drink alcohol, they don't drink coffee or tea, but they love Coca Cola. Good old fashioned Coca Cola.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: That is not where I thought that was going. I thought it was going to be a health thing.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: I was like, okay, great. And we had a virtual meeting scheduled. So I got from the shop down the road, paid him a bit of extra money and got them to drop two cans of Coke off to his office before our virtual meeting.
It's not expensive.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Brilliant. Yeah. That's.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you need to pay enough attention and get enough information out of people and genuinely want to wow them to. Because that's unusual. If knock on the door and you actually receive a can of Coke and someone's remembered that you like Coke, you don't like tea, you don't like coffee and you don't like alcohol, it's really listened to me. They paid attention.
So there's lots of little things that you can do like that. But it's about paying attention and being creative enough to come up with stuff.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Do you do anything to get that kind of information out of people? And I ask because I have a little notes file where I write this kind of stuff in, right? Like I write in XYZ likes this kind of beer or whatever, because it was mentioned in a conversation.
That notes file is really small because I don't have.
There's not often enough that these things come up just naturally that make me go, oh, yeah, I'll put. I'll note that down. I wanted to buy a gift for someone once and I had to crawl through their Twitter and I found like someone that he was hanging out with at an event and DM'd that person to find out what they were into or what they were drinking so I could get him that type of booze. And I don't know, like, sometimes that's impossible. Like some. Like, literally all I've got is trolling through people's socials. So I'm just wondering, do you have a way that you get this information out of people?
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Firstly, you have to be spending time with people and secondly, you have to be asking questions. So my favourite saying with all of our team is you have two ears and one mouth for a reason. I want you to do twice the listening as you do talking. And I think if you are someone that is genuinely interested in people, so when you're spending time with them, think of all the time that we're hanging out at conferences with people, all the conversations that you have.
That is like a wealth of knowledge to go into your CRM, if you're actually paying attention, asking the questions, remembering to note it, but you have to be disciplined with it.
And what I would say is the accumulation of that information over 10 years is huge.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: Playing the long game, actually caring about people.
There are no gimmicks to this. Be a genuinely good person that loves, shows an interest in people and figures out how to wow them.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: The showing an interest in asking questions is like the thing there, right? And I'm terrible at this, right? Because I go into a conversation being like, I'm gonna make sure I ask questions and then I forget immediately and just start talking shit. It's what you know. And we have silly conversations and it's amazing. And it's not like I'm dominating the conversation, but I just, I don't know, we just talk about silly shit and it's not. Anyway, so I, I.
[00:32:39] Speaker B: You had a set list of questions to actually ask people when you're in their presence to find out key stuff. It's just. What did you do on the weekend can really open up. I went to this footy game. Oh, you like football? Who's your team?
How long have you barracked for? Do you like any other sport or is that it? It's just these natural questions that will actually lead you to finding out information about people.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: Oh, I know this. I go in with those intentions and then it put me throw me into a social situation and I change. Like it's just bang. I there. All the things I tried to remember are just immediately gone.
So I don't know, strange. But you said there's no gimmicks and I was like, oh man, my brain's messed up. Have you seen all these AI note takers that you can pin on your shirt? Just start recording every interaction you ever have and now I'll know exactly what people are into.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: Feels so disgusting.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: It does.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: Don't get started.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. Like, are you gonna ask for permission? Like, I understand that it is like the benefit, right? And being able to. My gosh, what was that thing we talked about? Because something happens to me all the time, especially because is it called state dependent memory? You're. You're really good at remembering things from when you were in that state, right? So when you're sad, if you have, you're really sad and then the next day you're super happy. You're like, what was I even sad about? And the opposite. You can't remember the things that you were thinking about when you were happy, when you are sad.
And so I am like at my peak happiness or excitement in social situations. As soon as I walk out of that, I'm like, everything's gone.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: That's an interesting point. Because they told us never to drink while studying for that same reason. Because in a different state, an altered state where you're been having a few drinks, which you often do at conferences, you can forget all of that was discussed. So it is really important to take notes as you're going. And as you're having conversations to remember.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting. I this a lot of AI. I didn't think we'd get to AI in this chat, but something I've been thinking a lot about is like a, like making vibe, coding a little like Android app or something that I actually. You know what? I'd probably just have a WhatsApp be able to message myself on WhatsApp with a voice thing and transcribe it and then have it automatically divide up into. Is that a task or. Because there's lots of things I do on the go that I want to record. Right. One of them is, oh, there's a thing I need to do. There's a thing I want to learn more about or research.
This is an idea for a LinkedIn post or this is a note I want to take about someone. Like that is a actually pretty cool use case for AI to me. Is it like have it like categorize what is that thing you just said to me and then I'll put it and file it away for later.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: I think you better onto that. We have HubSpot. I don't know how do you use that as a CRM?
[00:35:28] Speaker A: Tom does. I'd hate it. So I let him call you.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: I love it. And it's on your phone. So in someone's file, instead of just taking a voice note, you can actually immediately put the notes in. So you head to the bar, put your notes into HubSpot, set yourself task for whenever you need to follow it up and it's done.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: So that's what I'm trying to avoid is having to open an app, find the person, go to the field, type the note. Like I don't want to do all of that. Yeah. Because it's the same right now. I just go into notion and I hit add task and I take the note and when I'm back on my computer, computer, I divide it up to where it needs to go. I go and put it in HubSpot or whatever.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Because I just. I don't want to be searching through my phone for it. I just want to go bang. Type, type, type, type. Actually I use voice to text on my Android and then just go. Right. But I want to be able to do that and have it automatically divide up anyway. This is way left field for this conversation. Hopefully that's still that to me, that is like literally one of the best use cases for AI right now. But it's. So hopefully that gets someone thinking.
So you work remotely. Right. So how does this work in like all the culture stuff you've spoken about? Sounds very focused on an office.
Are you like one of the only remote people? Tell me about this, like how does this all work with a remote?
[00:36:44] Speaker B: We actually have only just a few people working remotely. I do go into the office once a week and most of the remote workers actually do attend the office. But you're right, a culture. And Mike believes this is where everyone is actually together, sharing that energy, having those water cooler chats, getting to know one another. Because it's a lot harder to do that like remotely now. Is it impossible? No, you just need to be very intentional about it and you have to make more of an effort. I think it is easier when people are in the office.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. We're like the opposite. Right. So we're fully remote. And until a year ago, I had met one person on my team in real life and so that's very hard to create a culture in that kind of scenario. I feel like we're slowly getting there. But now I actually also have four or five people in Australia, so we do see each other. So sometimes.
[00:37:42] Speaker B: Oh, sorry. I was about setting those clear parameters, having those like minded people though. Right. So if you're doing those other things as well, you can create that culture from the beginning and then obviously you don't have the in person stuff. But we've got so many ways to connect online.
Do you do any team morale building stuff where you come together even though you're remote or. Not really?
[00:38:10] Speaker A: Not really. Because just where everyone is, it's so crazy hard and yeah, like it's.
I don't know. Yeah, it's not something we've done one time many years ago when we had a lot of team in the Philippines and we're a web design company. That made sense because everyone was like closer together. But we have people in every corner of the damn world now, which I guess we could get them together, but it's also difficult.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: You could get them together and do online stuff. So when Covid was happening, that's how Frock Up Friday was born.
So it was born out of this need of human connection. Because I was in Melbourne with Dictator Dan and he was a psycho and we were locked down for ages and it had been like three weeks I think that we were locked down for. And it was the third lockdown that we were going through. And I rang my friend Vicky Massey, who's amazing, she's the co host of Frock Up Friday. And I was like, if I Need to sit in my house in gym gear for one more Friday without going to an amazing place, drinking great champagne with my girlfriends. I'm going to die.
And that was dramatic. But that's how I felt at the time. I was not positive, Taryn. I was, like, heading down a negative path. And she was like, oh, that sounds amazing. I'm like, let's catch up. Wear really nice clothes, like we're going to a wedding.
Order expensive French champagne, and we'll have a zoom and we'll just catch up at 4 o' clock like we would otherwise and just hang out. And she said, that sounds great. And then, like women do, we got on the phone and chatted to all of our friends about it and colleagues. And in that first session, we had 25 people that jumped on online and they were all dolled up. Makeup, wedding dresses, great outfits. We drank more champagne than I should admit. And then we hung up that call and we all felt amazing. And we tottered off to our room, a little tipsy because we spent three hours sitting down at a desk looking at a computer.
But that actually, we set our playlist weekly because that was fun. And we didn't just make it about alcohol. We actually caught up online. We did different quizzes, we did cocktail making, we did paintings. We all had to paint something, but it was about getting together and actually sharing an experience. So I do think it's possible to do it online.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: I love it.
Okay. That's thrown off as something I need to think more about and getting people together.
Okay. So we have covered a lot, I think, as we come to the end of this, I just wanted to say this has been super helpful for me. Been awesome.
[00:40:45] Speaker B: You have a good day. I hope you get some chill time before those kids come home. And I'll see you soon.
